Chitty Chats with Stacy

Charles Williams 

Stacy York Nation: [00:00:00] Hello friends! Welcome to Chitty Chats with Stacy. I am thrilled to have our guest on this night, this night. It's night for us. We're recording at night. Uh, this is, I'm going to call you my dear friend now, Charles Williams. Uh, we met at a conference. Uh, I, I think he was sort of giving me some Judgy McJudgerton eyes from the audience. 

And then afterwards we just, it was just like soul mates, I think, like speaking soul mates. And then I had the privilege of sitting in your session and I'm just so thankful to spend this time with you. You have come into my life in a big way and impacted it in a way that you don't even know yet. So I'm excited to share that with you. 

I want you to introduce yourself. I always like when people introduce themselves first. 

Charles Williams: Yeah, well, uh, first of all, thank you for allowing me [00:01:00] to share this space with you. And you're right, we did connect and it was our first time. It was a whirlwind. I was meeting all sorts of new people and a little overwhelming. 

A lot of personalities and, but I got to see you right as you were keynoting and you did a fantastic job. And so I'm happy to add you as part of my EduCrew, right? My new, I gotta rock it out today. My name is Charles Williams. I am a current school administrator in, uh, in Chicago. I'm an assistant principal. 

I sat in the principal role for eight, nine years and stepped back into the assistant principal role so that way I can do a little bit more of this work. Uh, it's very hard to run a building and travel the country speaking, uh, so stepped back so I can continue to do this work. Uh, and with that being said, I get to travel the country and speak and connect with educators all over. 

I just had a keynote, uh, with the Illinois, uh, TESOL group, uh, just got back from New York. I'll be heading off to Charlotte [00:02:00] soon, um, so just, thanks for having me. An incredible opportunity to connect with educators and educational leaders. from just all around the country and even beyond. So I do this work, uh, where I speak and I host workshops and facilitate spaces, but I'm also a writer. 

I host a podcast. Um, so, you know, just all the things. And on top of that, I'm a husband and a father and a grandfather. Uh, if you'll believe it. So, you know, definitely have to incorporate that, that family life, something I am trying to do better with. Because I know that's something that, unfortunately, I sacrificed a lot on this climb up, as I, as I struggled and, and scraped by to get into these spaces. 

And recognizing sometimes those things that we, Kind of left to the side to pursue what we thought was important. Sometimes those were some of the most important things. And so definitely trying to do better about creating that balance, not just teaching other people, not just talking about it, uh, but living it as well. 

So I want to add that into, uh, to my introduction. [00:03:00] I mean, 

Stacy York Nation: this is, these are my people, right? So part of what's been great about these podcasts is we're. We're peeling back the layers of the people who do this work, and I have a lot of questions for you. So one, why? Why did you get into education? What in the world drew you to education? 

That's my first question. 

Charles Williams: Yeah. So, um, you know, it's fun whenever somebody asks me this question, cause I think they're like waiting for that like inspirational story and it's not, it's not there. Um, I landed here. Uh, so I was a single dad, uh, my, my daughters and their mother and I, we, we split very, very early on. 

Uh, so I was a single father for, for a while, and I know that's not a term that's often used, but that's who I was. And so when I graduated from college, I had essentially two job offers on the table. One was to work, uh, as a PR representative, which is actually what I was going to school for. [00:04:00] At the casino, um, he, in Hammond where I had grown up, um, and it was a six month job. 

It was brand new, they were trying it out, and they said if it goes well, you know, we might keep it around, but there's no guarantee. And the six months was up on December 1. So I was thinking, dad, girls, Christmas, maybe or maybe not having a job, I don't know. The other job was doing PR for the school district where I went to school. 

And so I was like, is it a six month job or is it a four year job? And they're like, no, it's a four year job, you weirdo, what are you talking about? So I said, you know what, I'll take it. Even though it was a few dollars less an hour, you know, I was like, I'll take it. Because I know come Christmas, right, I'll be able to take care of my babies. 

So. I started doing that and very, very quickly it was very little PR and more time in the classroom. Uh, I had an English background, so I was working, uh, you know, in the English space and I absolutely fell in love with it. And I was thinking to myself, like, I [00:05:00] went down the wrong pathway, right? I, I just kind of went wherever I landed. 

But this is, I think, what I'm supposed to do, which is interestingly enough, ever since I was young, my very, very, very first job state, like I keep this with me. This is my ID from my very, very first job. Oh, I love this. I was in eighth grade in that picture. I know. Look, I look like a grown man, but I was in eighth grade. 

But ever since then, my grandmother told me, she's like, you're going to be an educator. And I was like, absolutely not. And lo and behold, that's, that's where I ended up. So I went back to school. Did the whole transition into teaching. Oh, we're falling. I 

was falling with it. I know you didn't see it. You'll see it in the recording. Oh my god, that's 

Stacy York Nation: hilarious. I love it. For so many reasons. 

Okay. It was a technical difficulty. 

Charles Williams: Welcome back. Hey, after what I started with, it's no big deal. Your grandma, for sure. Yeah, yeah, so I'll rewind it. So, like, my grandmother was telling me, like, you're going to go and you're going to be an educator. Like, I see it, I see it, I see it. And I was like, absolutely not. 

And? She was kind of like, I told you so, right? So I went back to school, did the transition to teaching program, stuck around, got my master's in teaching and just really, really fell in love with the field itself, but very, very quickly started figuring out, I don't really like how things are happening. I like what's happening in my class and we're seeing some phenomenal results, but I think that's because I was doing things differently. 

And I kept saying, there's no way I'm going to do this on a large scale for my classroom. So I went back to school. Got the admin license so I [00:06:00] can move into administration. And I've been in that space ever since. So I think I've been an administrator now for about 11, 12 years and just trying to change the world of it. 

What were you 

Stacy York Nation: doing? 

You said I was doing these things in education that was different 

Charles Williams: so for me, Something I realized, and I didn't, I didn't have a name for it in the beginning, I was the model student. I excelled at school. And I tell people this all the time, I was an amazing student, not because I was better than anyone else, which I found later on and was a very humbling experience, but it was because I fit the mold. 

I was that student. I could read something. I've got it. You could lecture it to me. I've got it right. I was able to take all that information in, take it, regurgitate it, spit it out on a test and do very, very well. I was an amazing student. I'm sorry. School was built for you. Oh, it was. It absolutely was, which allowed me to shine, right? 

That's why I'm so amazing. That's why my teachers loved me. Because it was built for me and I quickly realized I had people like my brother, [00:07:00] some of my friends who struggled throughout school and not because they were any less smart, but simply because the system was not designed for them. So I thought, well, I'm going to, I want to do something different in my class. 

I don't want any of my students to ever feel that way. I don't want any of my students to think that they were less than or, or, or, you know, they're not smart enough. So I created spaces where every single one of them could succeed and excel and later on discovered, well, that's, that's that equity work, right? 

And so I was just frustrated because I was like, why are we not doing this? Why are we not creating spaces like this throughout the school? And so when I became an administrator, that was my biggest push. Hence the reason that is why my focus is in this area now. That it was just, there's no reason any student should not be successful. 

But on the other side, we shouldn't do what we like to sometimes call equity work so much that it moves into enabling, right? We need to make sure that our students truly have the tools and the resources so that they're authentically successful, [00:08:00] not this facade. We're not celebrating mediocrity, right? 

And so finding that balance. And so that is the work that I've been doing. And you know, it was interesting because so many times I was in an interview and people were like, well, how did you get the results that you, and I was like, what do you mean? Like, I built relationships. I used the data to inform my instruction. 

I figured out what the students, you know, how well they learned. And then we, we went from there. Like, what do you mean? Easy peasy, right? Like, you don't know, but as I've been doing this work, it really, I've understood that it's not so common. And that's very, very unfortunate. And so hence the reason I'm on my little crusade across the country to say, let's do things differently. 

Stacy York Nation: Yeah, so I think for my audience, right, so I'm a born and raised Wyoming girl, been in Montana for a long time, here in Colorado, I need to understand what equity work is, right? And I think that's a really important piece of this conversation, so when I met you, [00:09:00] you had this t shirt on that said, Love me as much as you love my music. 

I have not thought about that since I saw you every time I hear music from a person of color. It has changed. That t shirt, and you wearing it, and us talking about it, and me sitting in your breakout session, has impacted me in my core. Because I also did not grow up in a space where we had equity. Where we discussed equity. 

We didn't talk about any of that. And I want to know more about the equity work. Cause I know there are listeners on here with the same background. I do that. I have to tell me, tell me Charles Williams, director, leader of the edu crew, what is, what does equity work? What does that mean at the very core level? 

And then what does it mean at the higher 

Charles Williams: level? Yeah. So one of the things I explain to people all the time is that I think when we think about these components, right? Like [00:10:00] when we think about diversity, equity, inclusion, all of these different pieces. I think the first thing to think about is, well, what does it mean to have diversity, right? 

And so diversity simply means there are these differences that exist amongst us. Even in a room full of people who may look the same, whether they're the same gender, the same skin tone, whatever it might be, there's going to be some level of diversity within that space. It is a natural thing that occurs. 

In fact, my wife and I, We're just in New York. We spent a rainy, rainy day at the Natural Museum of History, right? And in one of those sections, it's this big section about biodiversity, right? And when I saw that, I was thinking to myself, there it is, right? This idea that there's differences amongst us. 

Unfortunately, in the world where we live, sometimes the differences, however, are , , the measures against which we're, uh, the, the factors against which we're measured. And because of some of those differences, we might be treated differently. We might not have the same access to opportunities or resources or tools to, to reach those same levels of success. 

And so [00:11:00] that's when , the equity piece comes into play, right? To say, Hey, Hey, I'm going to make sure that you have the tools and resources necessary to have those same opportunities, right? Equity leads to equality. So that way I have the same opportunities to access, the same opportunities to success as anyone else. 

And I know sometimes people push back and say, well, why is that necessary? Right? And so there's a book called Ball Don't Lie. Um, and so I'm not going to pretend like I made this one up on my own. It's a book that I used to do as a novel study with my middle school students. And in the book, there's a, the main character's name is Sticky. 

And he meets this kid at the gym. And the kid puts down these like stones, right, from the wall. And he talks about how some people in life are these stones that are a lot closer to the goal. Whereas we're back here, right? And yet, yet, we're expected to reach the same end zone or the same goal, right, at the same time with considering all things equal. 

And [00:12:00] it's like that, how is that even possibly fair? Right. And so when we talk about equity, what we're saying is like, it's not taking away from anyone. And I think a lot of times people look at the zero sum theory and they're terrified that will have someone. So it was getting a little more of something. 

That means somebody else is getting less of something. And that's not what it means. It simply means that person a might need X and person B might need Y right. And so they're getting what they need. So then that way. Everybody's at the same starting line, right? In the hopes, right, that maybe, maybe, maybe everyone will come to that finish line about the same time, right? 

And I think a lot of times the other piece of that, when we talk about diversity and equity, people immediately think race. Like I just saw the University of Florida was banning that because of the laws down there. You know, it goes well beyond that. My grandson has just been diagnosed with autism. Guess what? 

When we talk about equity work, we're talking about ableism, right? Individuals who have different needs, who are neurodivergent, who might [00:13:00] need something different. So we're not just talking about it right and I think that's where it gets caught up and that's where people get really emotional and very fired up because race has been a very hot topic, but it goes well beyond that right I'm a father of five daughters five. 

So when we talk about the gaps that exist between men and women. Right. We're talking about equity work, right? And so equity work exists in many, many, many different spaces. And so I think it's important to, to step back and consider that very broad definition, but also understanding that we're talking about making sure that people. 

have opportunities to success and that we're not taking away anything from anyone else because the reality is everyone benefits from it. It's not that zero sum theory. 

Stacy York Nation: I love that. And I love, I intentionally asked the question around race to begin with because that's what a lot of people start with. 

Right? And, and it's so much bigger that. As we're sitting here, I'm thinking, Charles, in [00:14:00] Chicago, in Granby, Colorado, a town of 2, 000 people, my kids ski on Fridays, they just skied into a hut for three days as part of their curriculum at school. And, Kids in Chicago don't have that! Chicago, we're not skiing on Fridays. 

Chicago, we're not skiing into a hut for a hut trip and a camping trip and backpacking in and learning about nature and connection in the same way, right? Equity. That can also be an equity situation. Depending on, right? Like, the opportunities and what we're looking at is so much broader. And I often think people get stuck at race, right? 

And they don't see past that. And that's one of the things I appreciated when I sat in your session. But what I appreciate about you is you, you take people past that. And that's such a critical part of being in education and changing systems. [00:15:00] 

Charles Williams: Yeah. I think it's important because as I was just explaining in one of my workshops, like equity ends up being one of those pieces, like a checkbox. 

Right. We're saying, well, we think it's race and therefore we're going to make sure that we have different people of different races within our organization done. Right. And it's like, no, it goes well beyond that. And so, yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, you're talking about those experiences. Within my building, we have something called Embark, which every single month, in fact, next Friday, we're going to be doing this. 

We take our students, the entire school. goes out on a NASA field trip and every they go to different places, but they're all experiences. So we want our students to experience things that they never would have experienced otherwise, right? Some one group, uh, and this one, they're going to, they're, they're doing some type of painting with an artist. 

Another one they're doing, it's called bit space. And so they're, they're creating things with 3d models and molds, right? Another group, they're actually going to the [00:16:00] Blackhawks. Typically they learn how to ice skate. But this time around, we're specifically taking our seniors and they're doing resume building, they're doing headshots, they're doing things, right? 

Because again, these things that are just oftentimes normal experiences for other individuals are once in a lifetime opportunities for some students. And so we want to make sure that when they leave us, they're not sitting there and saying, well, I don't know what it's like. To, to put on a pair of skates and to be on the ice. 

I don't know what it's like to fold a piece of paper into origami. I don't know what it's like to have, you know, Puerto Rican food, right? Like, we wanna make sure that their, their, their horizons are being broadened, which, like you said, is just so natural for so many of our students in other spaces across the country. 

And it. It has nothing to do with race. It might be race, right, because we know there's a very strong correlation between race and socioeconomics, but there are students who are in rural areas, right, who haven't fit the major demographic, they're Caucasian individuals, but [00:17:00] same thing, they've never had those experiences. 

Therefore, they too should have those same opportunities to access and success. Like, it just, there's, it's so big. And my goal, like you're right, my goal is obviously coming into spaces, understanding what it is to be a black man in America. That's my experience. But it doesn't mean that I can't speak on behalf of others and say, hey, this is important. 

I'm not, I can't speak to their realities. Right, but I can say this is something I'm at least going to open the door and so this way these conversations can take place and so that is how I view is my job. My job is to at least begin those conversations to create opportunities for that dialogue to occur and like you said to broaden the horizons and to broaden the definitions. 

Stacy York Nation: Love that. You started by talking about relationships. And you just keep talking about it without saying a word. And really, in order to understand our students and where they're at, we have to have relationships. Absolutely. [00:18:00] Right? We have to really understand how they're showing up, what they're experiencing in the world, maybe what they're not getting, what needs are not getting met. 

Not all kids show up at school ready to learn. And so, I just am curious, when you talk to educators about relationship building, how What are some of your, what are some of your tricks of the trade? What do you tell people about 

Charles Williams: relationships? Well, I think the first thing is that it takes time, right? 

There are so many people who are upset because like, well, what do you mean? Like it's, it's November. We should like, you're not going to connect with everybody at the same, at the same rate, right? Some of those students you may not have a connection with until the very end of the year, right? So know one, that it takes time. 

And I think two is to be your authentic self. Hmm. I mean, I think this is especially important in the world that we live in now with social media and we see all the tiktoks and, and, and Instagram reels and all those things where people are doing [00:19:00] all these things with their students. And if that's not, you don't be that person because your students are going to know that it's fake, it's not authentic. 

Right? It's going to fall apart very, very quickly. Like be you, like if you, if you don't do handshakes, don't do handshakes. If you don't know how to dance and do tic tac, it's okay. Be who you authentically are and allow that to come out in the work that you're doing with your students. But allow your students then to be authentically themselves too. 

My students oftentimes, they're like, you're weird, Mr. Williams. Or now, now I'm just known as AP. But a lot of times they're like, you're weird. Like, why do you, right, Monday through Wednesday, typically I'm in a suit. Right? And at the beginning, they're like, why do you wear a suit? Because to me, this is how I am comfortable, and this is what, right? 

I call my students Mr. and Mrs. by their last names, right? Or mixed, if they're pronouns, right? Like, and they're like, they think that's weird, right? But, That is who I am. And I'm just like, I mean, if you don't want me to, I [00:20:00] won't, but this is who I am. But we start to then just be authentically ourselves with one another, and it builds these beautiful relationships and bonds to where now, you know, today, I had a student, we have these plumbing experiences, I have students who are going off to take a test, and a student showed up to school, 7. 

30, at the test. To get his plumbing license and he shows up at the school at 7 20 saying, Hey, I need a bus card to get down there to take my test. And I was like, it is 20 minutes away. What are you doing? Right. Get in the car. Right. We're, we're, I'm getting you down there. Right. And so there was no conversation. 

Like I took him down there to take his test. About 30 minutes later, he walked in my office. I was like, Hey, AP, sorry about that. But my test wasn't today. It's Thursday. But right. It was just like, It's that very just real authentic space. And I think these are the things that we need in our schools, right? 

They ask, well, how come you don't yell and [00:21:00] scream at us? Because I don't want you yelling and screaming at me. And that's not what I need to do in order to get these things. Maybe somebody else does. And kudos to them, that's what they need to do, whatever, right, but just being your authentic self, and so for me, those are my two biggest things when it comes to relationships, one, don't rush it, allow it to develop naturally, and being naturally being your authentic self and creating spaces where students can be their authentic selves. 

Take, take notice in it, like, just, and have some fun with it. I mean, you'll be surprised the things that you learn about your students if you allow them to open up and become who they truly are. The other day, I'll just share this, we have these metal detectors, unfortunately, in front of our school, and so as their bags are coming through the machine, I kind of noticed because I saw what looked like a chess piece, but I only saw one. 

And in my mind, I'm like, is that really a chess piece? Because now I'm seeing all these cool bapes, right? They look like highlighters and all these other things. So I pulled him to the side. I said, Hey, I noticed that thing in your, in your bag. Tell me about it. And he was like, you mean [00:22:00] my chess set? And I was like, but I only saw one. 

And he was like, Oh, that piece must've fallen out. Pulls it out. And he starts to, and I was like, Oh, I didn't know you play chess. He was like, yeah, I love to play chess. Do you play chess? And now we play chess. Right? But it was just, I would never have thought that this student, because I know some of his past, was a chess player. 

But now we have this connection, right, where we have a mutual interest. So again, don't rush it and allow things to happen naturally, but also authentically. 

Stacy York Nation: Love that. And what a beautiful way to practice curiosity, right? If you had just come in there feeling the worst, that would have not went well. And it would have broken the relationship. 

And just opening up with curiosity. Really does build relationship and it allows them to share. Love that. Love that. So let's talk a little bit about two things I think are really important. One, what kind of speaking do you do? Who do you chat with? What do you talk about? And two, We gotta talk about [00:23:00] the author in you. 

Charles Williams: Yeah. Let's start with speaking first. So yeah, so I connect with various groups. Typically, typically they're school leaders because that is my area, right? I'll be honest, when I first started this work, I was just kind of like, what do you want me to talk about? I've got you, I've got everything, right? And so, based off the guidance of some of my mentors, they're like, Charles, you can't be that guy. 

Like, you can't be the guy who's kind of known for everything, like, narrow that thing down. And so it's really this intersectionality of leadership and equity work. Um, I'm starting to do a lot more in this space of just wellness and mental wellness, um, because those, those pieces are, you know, intrinsically connected and so venturing more into that area, typically school leaders, but one of my favorite groups obviously are teachers. 

And I think one of my, the reasons for that is that. Most of the leaders, most of the spaces I've sat in, the leaders are just kind of like, Hmm, Hmm, [00:24:00] Hmm, I hear you, but I'm going to go back and I'm going to do the exact same thing that I've been doing, right? Like I got here because I needed to get a credit or something, whatever it might be, but teachers more often than not, they're hungry and they're excited to do this work. 

They're, they're anxious to do this work. And so nine times out of 10, the spaces I'm in, the teachers seem like they're like, Thank you. And I'm going to go do right. And in fact, it's in those spaces. They, they're saying, how do I overcome the spaces that I'm in with a leader who isn't okay with this? And I'll tell them, I'm like, give me your, give me your principal's number. 

Like he can't fire me. It's cool. Like I will make that call. And I, and I have, right? And I, I never throw anybody under the bus, right? Just simply reaching out and saying, Hey, this is the work that I do. Like your name came up in a conversation, you know, I would look, how can I support, right? I'm beginning to push back on some of those ideas because I think a lot of times we as leaders and I'm speaking to leaders and this is just, I'm, I'm very honest. 

Sometimes we get in the way. Right. [00:25:00] And so stepping back and allowing our teachers to be the fantastic individuals that they are to go be right and to do this work. And so, um, I am starting to do a little bit of work, um, with students right in that student arena. I think that's a powerful space because most of the time students look at me, even my own students, and they see this guy like, okay, well, you've got a great career. 

You're doing these things like, man, like that's amazing. And I remind them from time to time when we have conversations. I'm like, yeah, when I became a dad at 18, right, I celebrated Father's Day and my graduation simultaneously. And they're like, wait, wait, what? Right. When I tell them, you know, I was married, divorced, had two kids. 

I wasn't even legally able to drink yet. And they're like, wait, what? So I share these, and it's like, yeah, guys, like, I'm right here with you. Like, I was in your shoes. I may not look like it now, but that's not what I'm talking about. Like, so my thing, and I [00:26:00] tell my students, like, I don't want excuses. Right? 

Because the reality is I was exactly where you were, and so I could have sat in excuses. I could have said, well, I'm a dad now. Like, I can't go to school. I'm the, yeah, no, we just figured out. Absolutely. And it's not easy, right? It's not easy. You're going to struggle. It's going to be hard, but the truth is you can come out of this. 

I have a student right now, and I love this student. And if she, if this student ever happens to watch this, like that student is a parent. Right? Early in their high school career, this student is a parent and I share these stories, right? I've had this student meet my children. So it's like, look, like it's possible and they're okay. 

Like my, my, my youngest daughters, I have one in New York and one in Atlanta at school right now. Like, it's possible. Yeah, like I know that society tells us I know that the odds are against us when we're in these situations, but it doesn't mean that it's over. So, you know, loving to have that that that [00:27:00] conversation in those spaces. 

Um, so yeah, yeah, I, I run the gamut. I'll talk to. Almost anyone about almost anything, but no, no that I'm going to have very honest conversations. I've sat in spaces where people have gotten upset and walked out. I've been invited to spaces and said, you may want to be careful about talking about that equity stuff. 

And I'm like, then why'd you invite me? Right? Like, so just know, like, if, if you do happen to have me come in, that's one of the reasons I talk about this sugar free speech. Like I'm just, I'm gonna keep it real. We have to if we're going to make changes in this work. Well, 

Stacy York Nation: and one of the things that landed with me when I met you, Charles, was just how sincere you are in this being your purpose. 

Like, you were put on this planet to do this work, and it is going to be the message that you share, and I love that about you. And so when I say that, like, we're soulmates on the speaking level, because I could, you could take away everything in my life, and I would still talk about trauma informed practices and [00:28:00] brain development and mental health, and it, it comes up in everyday life. 

It comes up in all my conversations, and I feel the same with you. Like, it's just part of who you are. You are the vessel for this message. And it's powerful. And it's powerful to be with someone as authentic and willing to have hard conversations. Because these aren't easy. They're not easy discussions. 

People get uncomfortable and that's how we grow. Uncomfortable equals growth. And so that's what I love about you. I always tell people I'm a triggering human. And so they might feel a little activated when we start talking about things, and I think that you probably have a similar experience when you go into rooms. 

It can be activating, and I appreciate that about you. Uh, okay. The principal's office. And I know you have another book, right? 

Charles Williams: This isn't the only one. Yeah, so, uh, an ebook just dropped. Yeah. So that one is out and about. It's an absolute free resource. And there's one in the works, uh, in [00:29:00] publishing with Dave Burgess, The Pirate People. 

So hopefully that one should be out by the end of the year. I was hoping for this summer, um, but Yeah, we have a lot of projects happening. So now it's, I'm hoping by the end of the year. I love it. How do people find you? Uh, so all over, uh, so you can find me on Twitter. Twitter's the best space. Um, I'm trying to figure out the Instagram and the other spaces, uh, but Twitter's the best space at underscore CW consulting. 

And if you connect with me, I connect right back. Uh, so if you follow me, you'll get a little message from me. It is not an automated, that's me like literally responding. If you ask a question, I'm right there to respond. So, uh, that's the best, best place. But yeah, the, um, the, the, the book, I will say this is that It's, it's kind of a, the title is a little misleading because I know it says inside the principal's office. 

So people are like, well, I'm not a principal. It's not for me. I will reiterate. It is a leadership book. Leadership doesn't, has nothing to do with your [00:30:00] title. Leadership has to do with the role and the work that you do within your building. And so it's called that because that was the name of the show. 

Well, the people who wrote the book, that was the show, so it's literally named after the show and in hindsight, it's like, okay, maybe it could have been a little different, but great content. Yeah, great content is great. Right. And it's written in a, it's written for 40 weeks. I mean, you could read the whole thing if you wanted to, but ideally, you know, You read it one week at a time. 

There's space for reflection and it's great, right? If you're a brand new leader giving you some insights because collectively me and Mike and Rob, we have well, well over, man, I was trying to think, I think we were counting at some point, like 60 years or 70 years of administrative experience among the three of us, if not more. 

And so what we're doing is we share our stories, right? And then we say the lessons that we learned from that. And here's some reflection questions. So it's not, it's not dense. It's not [00:31:00] a bunch of citations, theoretical work. Like it's just our stories. And so very easy to read, good for new leaders or veteran leaders who just kind of need a reminder. 

Stacy York Nation: Yeah, I love that. And you are so filled with many resources. So if you're listening to this podcast and you need a leader, come in and shake things up and talk about equity. Here's your guy. Uh, Charles, thank you for taking the time. Thank you for loving me through my technical difficulty. That was both of us. 

Right? Yeah, we did. Uh, I appreciate you greatly. You are just such a gift to this world, and I just didn't think you could say it. Well, 

Charles Williams: Stacey. I appreciate the opportunity. See ya.