Chitty Chats with Stacy

Ginger Healy: Ah,

Stacy Nation: I'm so excited.

I'm so excited.

I have Ginger

Ginger Healy: Healy with
me today, so I am going

Stacy Nation: to do a little mini
introduction about my experience with

you, and I'm gonna talk to my people about
you, and then we're gonna talk to you.

So just know that that's coming.

So for those of you that don't
know, I'm Stacey York Nation.

Some people know me as Stacey York.

Some people know me as nation.

Uh, I'm a licensed clinical social worker.

I have had

the opportunity to be in
the trauma-informed space

for a very long time.

I believe I started public speaking in
2010 about trauma-informed practices.

And what's been really amazing in
the last year is I've had these

wonderful humans come into my life
in all sorts of interesting ways.

And so.

Ginger Healy has been in my email box.

She has been in my,

Hey, we got your proposal.

Come and chat with us
at the conference box.

She

saved me on an elevator, which I
cannot even begin to tell you how

thankful Megan and I were for that.

Uh, and then you just know a
lot of the amazing humans in

my life are in yours as well.

And I decided a few weeks ago, I
need to do a series for my audience.

I, my audience includes educators,
parents, adopted parents,

veterans, military families.

The scope is wide.

And when you're an LCSW.

As you know, you

serve a lot of people and so one of
the reasons I'm so excited to talk to

you about talk to you today is I feel
like we have some parallel life stuff

happening and I just wanna talk to you.

So who are you?

Who is Ginger Healy?

Ginger Healy: That is very good question.

You would probably get different answers
depending on who you ask, but I like

that I control the narrative and you
don't know whether it's true or not, but.

I will tell you the truth
from my, from my perspective.

Okay.

I'm an also an LCSW, licensed
Clinical Social Worker.

I love that title.

I'm proud of that title.

It was hard earned and I.

I love the field of social work.

You kind of touched on that.

We get to just interact with so many
different people in all walks of life.

I love that.

That is just such a joy to me.

'cause I just, I love people.

I really do.

I truly like, you know,
we, we all need people.

We all need relationships.

We all need connection.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I get that.

But like.

I, it's like oxygen to me to
just interact with people face

to face and virtually as well.

So I enjoy that.

I think more though,
more than most people.

Same.

So, so I'm a people lover.

I'm a people person.

I'm a therapist.

Um, I'm a mom.

That's my favorite role and title,
even though I don't necessarily

think that I am amazing at it.

I love it.

I just love my little people in my
life who are not so little anymore.

My oldest.

How, how old are they?

What are, what are their current ages?

Oh my gosh.

Holland, my oldest turned 25
Saturday, so 25 feels like.

That's a big number.

He is my oldest.

He is adopted.

And um, I say that because that
is how, what one of the reasons I

have, I worked in the adoption field
for over 15 years and I worked in

that field before we adopted Colin.

But once I adopted Colin, I was like, oh,
I didn't really know what I was doing.

You know what I mean?

It was a different perspective, like I.

My work changed, um, my philosophies,
my thoughts, my knowledge and experience

changed after being an adoptive mom.

So he's 25 and he is super handsome,
I can say that because, you know,

he didn't get those genes from me.

He is one of the best looking
people you'll ever see.

But he's also like so
beautiful inside as well.

He's just.

Kind and sweet and gentle.

And if I go down that path of bragging
on the kids, we will be here all day.

So I'll try to move quicker, but,
so Colin is 25 and then Alec is 21.

I just have to like stop and pause.

It blows me away.

'cause they're still
like teeny tiny to me.

But Alec is 21 and then Ellie, my
only daughter, Eliana, she is 17.

She just had her birthday too.

So I'm like.

I can't say 16 anymore.

She's 17.

And then Dash.

He is my baby who I told him when
he was born, you're the baby.

You gotta stay the baby.

I'm gonna rock you till you're 35.

Yeah.

And he looked at me and and
said, I will never be the baby.

You will ne you know, like
let's hit the ground running.

I've got three older siblings
that are doing cool stuff and I.

He was born with fomo.

He's like, put me, put
me in the driver's seat.

Let's go.

So he never got the memo that he was
the baby, but every so often I'll sneak

into his bed and when he's sleeping, I
just like cuddle him and hold him tight.

And then I get the last laugh,
like, I am gonna cuddle you.

I will rock you.

I love that.

How old is he?

So, so he will be 12 in June.

So we're coming up on 12.

I love that you're

Stacy Nation: spending time talking
about your humans and I think what I tell

everyone in my life is I don't leave my
mom self outside the door when I come

into

Ginger Healy: my zoom room, my right.

Like those are pieces

Stacy Nation: of what influence.

Our story and influence the
work we do, and I think it's

so important to honor them now.

Yeah.

My children charge me $2 a story.

Oh.

Ginger Healy: That they, they, they
know me, so they know, like I've always

asked permission and they always grant
it, but they would dig $2 a story.

They would be.

Filthy rich.

Yeah.

And sometimes I'll say, look,
if I had kids, and then tell the

story because you know, yeah.

But it's the only way they do.

You're right.

They shape and mold everything I do
professionally, personally, of course.

And so they are a big part of everything.

Yeah, yeah.

Blah, blah, blah.

They,

Stacy Nation: Mm-Hmm.

Love that.

So one of the things that I use
often with the people I work with

is that we just have chitty chats.

Like we just show up in a space,
we talk about us, talk about our

stress, we talk about whatever.

And some of us.

Happen to be in this role where we,
my partner calls it above average

knowledge of the human psyche.

And I love that.

Right.

I love that.

But I'm like, really?

It's just people chit chatting and some
of us have a deeper understanding of

brain development, neuroscience, and all

Ginger Healy: these different things.

And so I, you, you

Stacy Nation: alluded to the fact
that you, you got a little bit more

into this when you became an adoptive

Ginger Healy: parent.

Mm-Hmm.

How

Stacy Nation: did you end up
becoming a social worker in general?

How did you end up like
going down this road?

Ginger Healy: What are
you currently doing now?

I'm just curious about these things.

I know, I, I am the same.

I love to people's stories and
how they ended up where they are

and it is fascinating to me too.

I get that.

Okay.

Let's see.

I mean, I changed my major seven
times in college and I think that is

a strength because it makes me feel
better about myself when I say that.

And I.

I learned what I liked and what I
didn't like and what I was good at

and what I wasn't good at, and when I
just had a lot of hopes and dreams and

I always wanted to travel the world.

That's like another form of oxygen to
me that just fills my cup is traveling.

So I tried the linguistics program and I.

Traveled to South Korea and
taught English and I loved it.

But then I was like, I don't
know how to make that a career

where I can also be a mom.

Because honestly, truly like
being a mom was the career.

But then I needed to like fund a
lot of hopes and dreams and yeah,

hobbies and you know, good things
and bad things that I wanted to do.

And so, um.

Dropped out of the linguistics program
and went into the English program.

'cause I thought I really
wanna be an author.

'cause if I was an author, then
I could be a stay at home mom

and write books on the side.

But that was hard too.

Like I didn't know what I was
doing or it just, I don't know.

It wasn't feeling right.

So I dropped outta the English program
and then I took an engli or a mental

health 1 0 1 course, one summer when
it was time to really like choose your

major or, or like, if you wanna graduate
someday, choose the major, you know?

And I took this mental health
1 0 1 class and I was like.

Found myself sitting front row listening
to the professor going, I just need more.

I want more.

I have questions.

I, I wanna study this,
I wanna read about this.

I wanna do more than the homework.

And I, it was like, oh
yeah, this is, this is it.

Right?

So, started into the social work
program, got the bachelor's and wasn't

sure like, had a little self-doubt.

Like, can I handle a master's?

Do I need a master's?

Mm-Hmm.

And then had a mentor that said, girl, you
have got to go get that master's degree.

It will put up doors for you.

It will allow you to be
flexible in your work schedule.

So yeah, you, if you still wanna be
that stay-at-home mom, then you can

work nights or weekends or evenings or
when your kids are in school and not

have to necessarily work full-time if
you don't want to, or work away from

the kids and went and got the Master's.

Best thing I ever did.

And, um.

Then I like, you know, I did child
abuse investigations and then I,

and I hated it, but it was such good
experience and I'm glad I did it.

But I thought, I do not wanna do
this the rest of my life, you know?

Sure, sure.

It just, you know, was hard
emotionally and, but I learned

a lot, so I was glad I did it.

But then I started working at the hospital
when I was doing my internship to get

the master's degree, and I loved that.

I.

I don't know how to say this
without sounding crazy, but I loved

being in the middle of a crisis.

I was really good at it, like I was
calm and I could see what needed to be

done and who needed to go where, and I
could be the stable rock in the middle.

That was like directing
traffic and managing it and not

becoming a part of the crisis.

Mm-Hmm.

I liked to manage the
chaos, um, and I loved that.

And then.

When I was doing that, we were,
I was also in the middle of an

adoption and, um, once I brought
that little guy home, I was like,

oh, I, I need to like, be home, home.

Um, so I quit the hospital job and
started, and then I got pregnant.

And so like I got these two
little boys at the same time.

One was five years old.

He was from Romania.

He did not speak English.

He hated me.

I don't blame him.

He, I had taken him, taken him away
from everything that he knew and loved.

And even though it didn't, he needed
that, you know, to be taken away

from a life on the streets and,
you know, all of those things.

Um.

He didn't wanna be taken away from that.

And he didn't know.

He didn't, you know?

Yeah.

So that was hard, hard, hard, hard.

And then I gave birth to this little
boy at the same time, and he had

autism and none of us knew that.

But he wasn't eating and he wasn't
sleeping and he couldn't be consoled.

And in fact, I was just talking
about this with him on Mother's Day.

We were, you know, we were talking
about adoption stories and birth

stories and how I became a mother.

We were talking about
that on Mother's Day.

And Alex said, remember how
you told me that you would put

me in your, um, what's that?

The sling, the jump, the, yeah.

Backpack.

And I'd put him in the front of me
because he just was inconsolable and

I'd rock him for hours and hours.

And I, and he finally found this one
position where his back was arched

and his head was all the way back.

He would stop crying and then I would
start crying because that was wrong.

Like it looked wrong and it felt
wrong, and I was like, babies

shouldn't be in that position.

They should be settled in this one.

And, and then he, but he would not
stop crying until he found this

one really arched back position.

Or this other position where he was
in the car seat and we would swing

him and we got really big biceps.

We were so, and we would take, we would
take turns 'cause it was exhausting.

Those were the only two positions
that he would stop crying in.

So looking back now, it was like, oh, you
know, he had some sensory issues going on

and four years later we got the diagnosis
of autism and went Oh, oh, makes sense.

Makes sense.

But what I tell you all that
to say, Alec was a hard baby.

He knows that he knows this,
that, you know, it wasn't him.

That was hard.

It was trying to console
him and soothe him.

That was hard.

And then Colin dealing with like all this
loss and change and grief, he was so hard.

He wasn't hard.

It was, the situation was so hard with
these, like I had dreamt of motherhood

my whole life and then I got there.

And it was, it sucked.

It was, uh, like none of us were
sleeping, none of us were eating

and we couldn't console each other.

We were all miserable.

It sounded like we were, you know,
I had dreamt of us just hugging

each other and cuddling, and life
was great and nothing worked.

And so then I felt like a total failure.

Mm-Hmm.

So I called the adoption agency that
helped us adopt Colin, and I said,

help, I need to talk to adults.

I need help for me, but I
think I can help other people.

At least I know I can sit
on the phone with them and

say, I know it's really hard.

Yeah, I can do that.

Yeah.

And be very authentic.

So then that started 15 years of
me being an adoption social worker.

I.

And traveling to these orphanages around
the world, evaluating children, preparing

the parents for what was about to come,
and, um, trying to prepare the children.

'cause these were older,
special needs children.

That was my niche, um,
in the adoption world.

I did that for 15 years and then
I was a better mom for it because.

I filled my cup and was able
then to fill my kids' cup.

I was just, before it was
just finding that balance.

Yep.

And then two more kids came.

So two careers going
on with this mom thing.

'cause I found out it wasn't all Yeah.

Easy and I needed all this stuff.

And then helping other
parents at the same time.

Like, here are some resources,
here are some support.

And, and even back then,
that was like, you know.

1999 or whatever, we knew nothing about
no attachment and adoption and trauma and

loss and grief like we were living it.

So we were learning it, but
we didn't know why or how.

And like for me personally, it
was surrounded and shrouded and

all this like guilt and shame.

Yeah.

Because I was helping people adopt, but
they were really struggling and I, so then

I was like, am I doing the right thing?

Like, oh, it's so layered and so complex
and so also beautiful and good at the same

time, but oh my gosh, those first, yeah,
those 15 years were just good and hard.

And so that's kind of how
I ended up in that world.

And then, um, adoptions, international
adoptions slowly really started going.

Down my caseload went from
like 2000 to like two.

And so I thought, oh my gosh,
after 15 years, I think it's

time for a career change.

What does that look like?

And by then, you know, kids growing
older and, and then, and, and, and

then we were moving at the same time.

Like we had lived 25 years in this
cute little bucolic little town.

Then we were moving to the big
city in Salt Lake, and then it

was in the middle of a pandemic.

Anyway, all of this started
happening in 2018, but I moved to

the Attachment and Trauma Network
as the program director career wise.

Um, so that changed to nonprofit
and working more virtually.

I was also this time, at
this time, starting in 2018

working as a school therapist.

So I had 45 kids on my caseload that, um.

I was, and that's kind of how I
got into the school slash trauma.

Like I was doing parenting caregiving
slash trauma attachment and then, uh,

with the attachment and trauma network and
with the, um, schools I was doing school

trauma, attachment, all of that, blending
it all together into this beautiful Yeah.

You know, world and
knowledge base and, um.

And then this last year
writing a book about it.

So yeah, that leads us to kind of to
today, but there that was, that's a

glimpse into that crazy wild journey.

Love it.

How we got here.

I love

Stacy Nation: it.

So there's just a few nuggets
I want to pull out of that.

Yeah.

So one, I had a beautiful
friend tell me a few weeks ago.

Ain't no hood like motherhood.

Ginger Healy: Oh my gosh.

I felt like humility
being like, I love it,

Stacy Nation: right?

Because I'm like, we have these visions
of how motherhood's gonna go, and I

don't know if you experienced this, but
there's this added layer of like, oh, I'm

supposed to know how this is supposed to
go, and I'm supposed to have the answers,

and I have above average knowledge of
the human psyche and nothing's working.

Nothing.

Ginger Healy: So it's like this

Stacy Nation: extra layer, nothing, right?

Yeah.

Of of things.

And so I love how beautiful
you just unpack some of that.

Ginger Healy: That's, I mean, I know,
I mean the only thing that you know,

'cause nothing was working, the only
thing that finally like worked, made

it tolerable, bearable, beautiful was
another mother reaching out to me saying.

Sometimes I don't like my kids or
sometimes I don't like being a mom.

Or sometimes I just like wanna
go to sleep and not wake up.

Like, you know, it wasn't that
we were horribly depressed

or suicidal or anything.

We just needed someone
else to go, oh my gosh.

Right?

It's so hard and sometimes it's
really ugly and it doesn't mean that

we don't love our kids so much and,
and love being a mother so much and.

It's just like we had no idea.

And once she gave me
permission to go, oh, amen.

Thank you.

You're right.

Like I just wanna walk
away from it sometimes.

For an extended vacation alone.

Yeah.

And sleep.

Once she gave me permission,
then I was like, oh, okay.

I'm not crazy.

No.

I'm just a mom and, and, and I'm, I'm
a woman and I'm all these things that

I need help with and I can't do alone.

And that, that's when, that
was how it all made it.

Okay.

Was somebody else
validating me, seeing me?

Not judging me.

Stacy Nation: And that is exactly
why we're having shitty chats today

because I just know the power of
letting people know they're not alone.

Mm-Hmm.

In those situations.

And I think that it translates
to the school settings so much.

Right.

Of teachers who might feel exhausted or,
I love my job and I don't like this kid.

I am, I love this kid and
I'm struggling with this kid.

Like the whole yes and yes, yes, yes.

So we have been talking a lot about
holding multiple truths that you can

have conflicting feelings, right?

I always say when you grow up in America,
you only really have two feelings.

You have happy and angry and
everything in between is not really.

Yeah.

Publicize.

Yeah.

And so part of our work is to just go,
yeah, this is hard and you can love it.

And you can wanna give
up and, and, and, yeah.

And you're, you're also talking,
one of the things I love about your

story is this piece around working
in hospitals and love crisis.

And I always tell my people that
part of my job is to help you become

an emotional crisis responder.

Hmm.

And all of us who are
working with any humans.

Our emotional crisis responders, we
just don't all have the training.

Oh my gosh.

And here you are in a setting where
you're literally crisis responding.

Yeah.

But you're providing, which
we're gonna get to, we're

you're providing co-regulation.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

For your

Ginger Healy: entire team.

Right?

I, and I didn't have
those words at the time.

I had no idea, but I, I
knew I was good at it.

And liked it and was effective and
yeah, there, there was that piece there.

And I don't, I don't wanna
minimize, I, I could hear myself

saying, and I wasn't suicidal and
I wasn't depressed and all that.

I don't wanna minimize that there
is that and that's okay too.

And that we do need to recognize
that and be aware of that and,

and hold space for that because.

I didn't recognize signs of post-adoption,
depression, postpartum depression.

And so I am glad that I had someone
that was monitoring that for me and

that I could monitor that for others.

That, um, we do cross into territory
sometimes where we really do need

help and need to ask for help.

And I just, that moment where
she saw me and validated me

and that if I would've said.

I'm having some pretty dark thoughts
'cause I have had dark thoughts that Sure.

I had that safe place to go.

So I hope, I hope I, I wanted to bring
that back out too 'cause I think I glossed

over and made it sound like, like, but
I wasn't that bad or I didn't, you know.

Stacy Nation: No, I think you did.

Beautiful.

I think one of the things that we talk
a lot in my house, in my relationships

is the way to get to co-regulation.

Is to share the dysregulation.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And I really think that the more we open
up about, you know, Hey, this is dark.

I'm not sure I can make it through.

I remember the day my kids, I
got divorced and I was laying on

my bed and my kids were going to
their dad's for the first time.

And I was like, I can't do this.

I cannot live without my children.

I do not know how to do that.

And clearly I'm still here
today, but it was dark.

It was really, really dark.

Oh yeah.

And if I didn't know, like I need
to reach out, I need to share the

dysregulation and how I'm feeling
so I can get to that other spot.

I, I think that's where many of our
people land, where we land, you know?

Yeah.

It's really, it's a hard place to be so.

Thanks for sharing

Ginger Healy: that.

Appreciate it.

It's a commonest place to be very common.

I know that at the time either,
but we were all suffering in some

way, in some level, in some form.

And we need, we all needed each other.

We, there's no reason
to suffer in silence.

There's no healing in that isolation.

Stacy Nation: Yeah.

Love that.

So, part of my conversation I wanna
have with you, you mentioned a book,

it just changed the word, the book.

It's a freaking guide.

I think it's like a
bible of co-regulation.

Yeah.

Mm.

Same.

Oh, there you go.

Yeah, I have, I read this
ginger and I was like.

Yes.

That's what I say.

Yes, this is how I'm, yes, yes, yes.

It was so validating as a
professional, and it was also so

useful as a parent, as a person who
works with people, like there's so

many great resources in here and.

It's the, it's the best money I've spent
on a book in a really long time, and

that's why I'm saying it's not a book.

I mean, you dug into the nitty
gritty of where the research has

been, where the science is now.

All the things that we
didn't have in 1999 in 2006.

Like there's things in there that I
know every parent I've ever worked

with and I know are like, we didn't
have that when we were growing up.

You and I didn't have these things.

Right.

No.

I talked to my mom about
this and my mom's like.

I don't remember half your childhood.

I'm like, that's called dissociation.

And she's like, yeah, we
didn't have that word.

Right.

And the poor woman has two
daughters of that are therapists

and another daughter that's not.

And I'm always like, come on mom, come on.

But I wanna, I wanna talk about
this because I have a, I have

some not obvious questions.

Ginger Healy: What was it like for you

Stacy Nation: personally?

To write about these really
hard topics of regulation and

Ginger Healy: co-regulation.

I, I loved it because in my work
I'm speaking about it every day and

so I actually, when I went to the
publisher, I had a different idea or

thought or goal in mind and they said,
Hmm, I don't know what about this.

And I was.

Was thinking like a children's picture
book, but they were talking about

these, um, 15 minute focus series, these
technical books that are just guides.

They're short and sweet so that
you can get through 'em quick.

They're not heavy, but they,
they cover a lot and I.

And I got really nervous and
about it, like, can I do that?

You know, but then, um, the publisher
said, but you're, you're already

doing that and if, if, if you're
speaking about it now you're just,

you just need to get it down.

And so that made it less intimidating
and, and gave me more of a template.

Um, 'cause I just, I'm the
type of person that like.

I'm not necessarily a visionary.

If I see it and hold it and touch it,
you know, I can copy it or model it

or follow it, but like to come up with
something I, that's, that's harder for me.

And so, um, so I, I don't know,
I, it was, I thought it was gonna

be harder than it was, and it was
challenging, but I, but I felt like.

Here's the thing, uh, when I do
speak, and maybe you have the same

experience, sometimes when you speak
about the same thing over and over

again, you're worried about fatigue.

That everyone's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We've heard it all before, but every
time I speak someone's like, this

is the first time I've heard it.

Where have you been?

I've needed this information.

Thank you for saying it.

And it just gives me this
excitement and inspiration to keep

going and keep talking about it.

And so I thought.

That's what I, this book will do.

And then, so I love hearing that
that is what it's doing, because this

is topics, it, the, the, the focus
is for schools and classrooms, but

it is very adaptable for everyone.

And that is the goal, you know,
because everything that I pulled from

is experience from the home and from
my therapy and just, it's, it, it's.

For anybody that is working with a
child, which is, you know, all of us.

So, yeah.

Stacy Nation: Well, I wanted to make
sure we covered how you got to where

you were, because a lot of times I will
have, especially my adopted parents.

Mm-Hmm.

Adopted parents are some of
the best experts on the planet.

And an adopted parent
can go into a classroom.

Yeah.

A psychiatrist's office, a
therapist's office, and they can.

They can do the work like they know
more than most people in that room.

Now that's also true for teachers,
it's true for parents, but adoptive

parents have this like tuned in way to
carry more information in my experience

than a lot of people on the planet.

And one of the things
I love about your book.

Is that your, your adopted experience,
tone is in that and it's so accessible.

Right?

It's so much like this is very
much the experience of humans,

the human experience, and it
will apply in the classroom.

Mm-Hmm.

This is very much the
human experience and.

Parents, it's helpful
for you to know this too.

How do we adapt that to home?

And so I just was so excited to read
through it and hear the tone of both,

because I think it's a resource.

To me.

This is like what you get teachers
during teacher appreciation

week, this is what you get.

You know, this is, this is where teams
come together and find a shared language

around students, because I think
that's part of what's in the gap of.

Helping students, right?

From a social emotional level
is what's the language we use?

How do we

Ginger Healy: talk about it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

I'm, I'm glad to hear you say that.

I, I think the thing about adoptive
parents is that we're sometimes

hyper-focused on attachment
because that is the issue that

is running rampant in our homes.

Yep.

That's what I love so much about the
attachment and trauma network is that

attachment piece is often missing when
we're talking about trauma or when

we're talking about PTSD or any type
of mental illness or drug abuse or.

Any life-threatening situation
where we're trying to figure out

what's going on with a behavior.

Yeah, and this is where schools really
come in, is the behavior management piece

is foremost in their minds, but they're
missing this piece about attachment

and where the behavior is coming from.

And adoptive parents already,
they get it and they know that.

So now.

It's not a, but it's not
an adoptive parent issue.

It's a human issue.

Yes.

So, but I think the adoptive parents
are nodding their head the loudest.

But yeah, it's a human
issue and so that's why it.

Crosses so many boundaries to, to talk
about attachment because it's been in

the forefront of the adoption field.

But it needs to be in the forefront of
every field because it, it's the answer.

It's the antidote.

Secure attachment is the
antidote for any, you know, yeah.

Um, that a child has.

Stacy Nation: Absolutely.

And we know se secure attachments
connected to their stress response system.

It's connect, right?

So for me, when I'm sitting with a
woman with all the things in your brain

that you have, and our audience is so
thankful they spend time with us and

they listen to us chitty chat, what
are, what are like two things that you

wish every single human knew about?

Neuroscience, brain development,
whatever, whatever you like.

What are the two things you
think are the most important?

Uh, it's a big question,

Ginger Healy: ginger.

Yeah.

I mean, okay.

First, for, at least for me, what
resonated the most and changed everything

for me was learning that the bla the
brain was plastic and moldable and

shapeable, and that neuroplasticity meant.

Through our lifetime, because I had
been taught that the brain, you know,

stops growing and stops changing
and gets fixed at a certain age.

But once I learned that was not true
and that we can continuously throughout

our life create neural pathways.

And change.

Then I went, oh, well then
there's all the hope in the world.

Nothing is off the table.

We can change brains.

We can change relationships,
we can change habits.

We can change behavior.

There's there.

That was it for me.

It was like, okay, great.

Tell me how I'm on it.

Give me a checklist, you
know, and I'll, I'll do it.

So I just love the hope that lies in
neuroplasticity and how to change brains.

And I also love how it's done.

It's such a beautiful thing
when you just boil it down to.

Positive re safe relationship and
connection that is way oversimplifying it.

And that's fine.

Yeah, that is, that's exactly what it
is, you know, is surrounding yourself

with safety and co-regulation and
positivity through human relationship.

That's how we change brains.

And so I love that.

I love that too.

I don't know what the second thing is.

You gotta gimme a second.

But it's probably, you know, within that
same realm, just knowing, here it is,

knowing that you don't have to go and.

Pay for a treatment or a strategy
or equipment or anything else.

There's so much good out there and
there's so much healing that you can do.

And I recommend, you know, when people
come to me, I give them a list, right.

You know, but, but really it's that you
are the strategy that you as the adult,

the parent, the coach, the teacher,
whatever role you are, it's just you.

It's your calm, warm, soothing, attuned.

Presence.

You don't even have to say anything
because how many times when we're in

therapy or when people ask us for advice,
they wanna know, well, what do I say?

Well, what do I do and how do I do it?

And I just say, just be there.

Just let them know you see them.

You're with them, you're not
going anywhere that you're

going to be alongside them.

That is enough.

You know that just that
you are the strategy.

I love that.

I was

Stacy Nation: gonna say, if you
didn't say that, I was gonna say,

you have a chapter in this beautiful
guide called You are the Strategy.

Yeah.

And I say never underestimate
the power of your impact.

Like you are the strategy.

I also say silence is a superpower.

Yes.

Yeah.

And it is probably one of my
favorite ways of showing up for

people is just to be silent.

Yes.

Yes.

And the beauty of the brain being
plastic, the relationship is the,

the dynamic that shifts everything.

Yeah.

And that we are the strategy.

I think those are so powerful.

Ginger Healy: Yeah.

And understated.

Yes.

Yeah, it's, it sounds simple.

Yeah.

You know, but

Stacy Nation: I love that.

I'm glad you shared that.

So, ginger healing, when people
hear this, they're gonna wanna

know, how do I find this?

What do I do?

How do I get in touch with her?

She's amazing.

I always say, I know the best people on
the planet and I just bring them to all

the other best people on the planet.

So, uh, we will post.

All the contact information you
wanna share with our audience, but

where, where can people find this?

Where can people even look

Ginger Healy: for it?

Yeah, it's, it's wherever a book is sold.

So Amazon is probably the quickest,
easiest, you know, most I.

Stacy Nation: And we still have
rural states, so we're just happy.

Sometimes people can get to

Ginger Healy: us, right?

But I, it's, you can get it through
Barnes and Noble, you can get it through

Bookshelf, you can get it on the at
TN website, at, uh, the Attachment

Trauma Network has a bookstore.

Um, so wherever you're buying your
books, it should be there available.

If not in the store, on the shelf, then
they will order it for you virtually.

So,

Stacy Nation: love it.

Love it.

Is there anything else you wanna leave?

The audience with in this
little chit chat of ours.

Any other things that I feel like you
and I could probably chat for hours,

Ginger Healy: so No, I, I just
love, I love chitty chatting.

I'm good at that too.

Yeah, we, I think, I think we just have
to give ourselves grace and patience

and, you know, there's no reason to
be carrying around guilt or shame.

I, I probably am saying that 'cause
that's a superpower of mine, right?

Yeah.

Carry around, you know, guilt and second
guess everything I've done and it's like,

it's just not doing anybody any good.

And so, because I always tell people like.

First of all, you know,
it's good to make mistakes.

We're human, so we're gonna, and it is
the best model for kids, especially if

you circle it, you know, with an apology
and a sincere repair of that rupture.

So give yourself a freaking break.

You're doing the best you
can, and that is good enough.

Love that.

We just don't have to

Stacy Nation: be perfect.

Yeah.

I wish I could shout that
from the mountaintops.

Ginger Healy: I know, me too.

Yeah.

Like, and I'm, I'm shouting it
also to like my younger self.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like.

It's okay.

You're You're enough.

You are enough.

Love that.

Stacy Nation: Love that.

Well, thank you so much
for your time and your

Ginger Healy: vulnerability.

Stacy Nation: You had no idea
what I was gonna ask today.

You had no idea.

You were just like, we'll
see how this happens.

Here we go.

So I hope you feel loved and cared
for because we, we appreciate the

love and care you give others,
ginger and you, you are a gift.

You are a strategy for co-regulation.

I see.

I see some of the storms that you hold
and it's remarkable, and so just know

that we're thankful you're here and
you're sharing your gifts with the world.

So thanks

Ginger Healy: for showing up today.

You are welcome.

Bye friends.

We'll see you on our next next episode.