Chitty Chats with Stacy

Hey friends.

Welcome back to Chitty Chats with Stacy.

I'm really glad you're here.

This is a space where we talk with
all sorts of humans from all sorts

of places because stories matter.

And when we take the time to listen,
there's always something to learn.

So, wherever you're coming from
today, you're in the right place.

Let's get into it.

Hey friends.

Welcome back to Chitty Chats with Stacy.

I have a wonderful friend of
mine who signs up for my bullshit

and is willing to chat with me.

Welcome Bryce.

Thank you for joining me today.

You're welcome.

I'm still confused why I'm here.

You.

Wear so many different hats
and I just wanted to chat

with you about a few things.

So one, our history goes back
to the army you and I met in

the Army during your slave days.

Yes.

And I wanted to chat with you a little
bit about mental health and sort

of the stigma that goes around that
if you're willing to chat about it.

Do you think, here's the thing.

I interviewed my husband.

And he, you and him are very
similar in some ways, right?

In the fact,

You did, Billy, I missed that one.

Oh yeah.

There's a, I made him interview with me.

But we always say like slick shit killers.

People who come into the army at a young
age, or the military at a young age, like

you get brainwashed and issued suffering
and you have these things that happen.

I grew up in California, so the
brainwashing started very early.

Okay, fair.

Fair.

So that being said, then you go through
all of these things in life and there's

this stigma around you don't need help.

You don't need help, you don't need help.

And then sometimes people get help.

And I'm just curious for you, if that
mental health journey, what has that

mental health journey been around for you?

I guess the initial impetus
was was my children.

Yeah.

It was recognizing that I don't
understand what's going wrong

here, but I know it's not right.

And and yeah, at some point in time
when you have something that you believe

in more than you believe in your own
health, you have to do something.

To make yourself better so that
way you can be better for others.

I love that.

So it was really your kids
that you were like, Hey, I

relationship that you tend to be in,
a lot of veterans I don't know many

veterans that don't have a divorce
in their past and it's not because,

they were the jerk necessarily.

I'm sure you know the
fault's always on both sides.

Whether it's a lack of communication or
a lack of caring, somewhere in between.

But yeah that just comes
with the lifestyle.

It's very stressful, isn't it?

Yeah.

And stressful on relationships,
stressful on children, stressful on

the veteran themselves, because you're
navigating, I always say that the

military is the spouse and the person
you're married to is the mistress.

Because the spouse always
wins, which is the military.

And so then to, to the relationship
with between you and your true spouse,

it, there's some stress on there.

And then for a lot of people,
depending on how old you are when

you get married there's a lot of
growing up that happens, I think.

Yeah, and it you either harden or soften
yourself to certain things which they

dictate the direction that you grow into.

And a lot of times, especially with
the guys that are young that join while

married, it can be incredibly difficult
for their spouse to accept the new version

of them after they've been in for a
few years and done some shit that maybe

they didn't wanna do or regret doing.

That's fair.

That's fair.

Do you feel like the mental health
journey for you, while it may have been

an impetus for your relationship or
your children, do you feel like you've

grown personally from all of that?

Oh yeah.

Like it's helped you with
what you've needed it to.

Yeah.

That, I always try to explain to people
that between the gym and counseling,

those two things genuinely gave my life.

Yeah.

The gym is, that's the next question
I have for you is how important is

picking up heavy things and putting
heavy things down in your life?

At first it just became a challenge.

When I was the better part of 240 pounds

what?

Oh dude, it was while I was in the guard.

I don't remember you.

It was 240.

I have to

picture you, the picture I
have in my phone of fat me.

It is always in my phone.

This is three phone machine and I still
keep bringing that picture along with me.

To

remind you of that version of yourself.

I was like, holy fuck, that's me.

Oh, okay.

So you keep it with you.

So to remind you of that
version of yourself.

Yeah.

Inspiration

sight of that guy.

Okay.

And the gym has become,

eventually it becomes, most people
start to work at nine or 8:00 AM and

if by 8:00 AM I've already done a
healthy amount of physical activity

to keep me living longer, then
I've already had a successful day.

And then everything after
that just feels easier.

And that was the original thing.

'cause I used to have to.

When I first started and I first
started getting dedicated, it was

5:00 AM wake up or 4, 4 45 wake up.

So I could get done at the gym in time
to come home and cook breakfast for

the kids and get them off to school.

Yeah.

And then it became I didn't go to the gym.

I'm a little bitchy today.

Fair.

Yeah.

And it's just, it's like any
other addiction except this

one makes me live longer.

That's fair.

That's fair.

So one of the things that I think
is really cool about our friendship

is that we talk about all sorts of
topics, and you've reached out to me

for so many resources about parenting,
mental health, relationships, whatever.

And I'm just curious, one of the
things I love the most about you

is like you are always learning.

You are always learning
and you're always growing.

You just don't accept
answers at face value.

You dig into it.

So I'm curious about, in your parenting
life, what has been one of the most

impactful, maybe new information, new
parenting, things that you've learned,

you've tried, you've been challenged on,

Everything is, you always think that
you've reached the greatest challenge

until the next one comes up and you're
like, okay, none of those were shit.

This is the real one.

But I guess one of my biggest
challenges is like overcoming

the level of guilt I have.

'cause when they were growing up and
I was in that bad relationship and I

hadn't taken my own mental health as
seriously as I should have, I allowed

certain things to go because like I
said, I just didn't know any better.

So after the Kajabi series that
you did and then realizing the

fundamental stages of growth just in
a kid's developing mind, like okay.

During those years they were getting
fucking screamed at a lot and I wasn't

around 'cause I was working 60, 70 hours
a week to afford my previous relationship.

So getting over that guilt was huge.

And then accepting that I can't be in
control of the direction in which they

grow all the time, as long as they're
happy, healthy, and progressing,

like I'm doing the best that I can.

God, I love that.

I wish so many parents could hear that.

We don't have control.

I think control's an illusion.

I'm coaching soccer, hate soccer.

Kids love soccer.

Don't know where they got that from.

Yeah.

Certainly not from me.

Yeah.

I played basketball and baseball.

I ride motorcycles.

At least the son is my boy.

And actually all the kids like
motorcycles aside from one.

So

I, I've had to learn that.

And I had no control over,
Hey, we wanna do soccer.

Do you though, like maybe
you wanna go bounce a ball.

Let's go shoot some hoops.

Nope.

Let's kick it.

Fuck.

Okay, here we go.

That's what I love about you when I like
watching you parent from afar is one

of the coolest things because you're,
you've just signed up, you've signed

up to say yes to whatever it is that
their little dreams are, even if it

doesn't fit into maybe what you know.

And I think that's very admirable.

Thankfully they're all
nine and 10 years old.

No, eight and nine years
old, so they don't know that.

I don't know anything.

Sure.

Yeah.

They think I know what I'm doing.

So if you could talk to parents who've
been through divorce, and you and I have

had a lot of conversations about divorce,
like I've talked to you about mine,

we've talked about yours, like what is
some life advice for a person who maybe

is just in the middle of the divorce?

Then on the other side
of it that have kids

in the middle of divorce, and I
was actually good about this one.

In the middle of divorce,

you can come back into a kid's life and
fill in gaps if informationally but you

can never take back what you've told them.

So if we use strong language towards our
ex or if we post something on social media

sites or anything that's there forever

Never go back and erase that.

You can have one-on-one conversations with
them and be like, Hey, when this happened,

this is what I probably should have said,
but I didn't have all the information yet.

Like opening up.

One of the things that has helped
me with my relationship with my kids

is, has always been able to open up
and admit a fault or a time where I

should have done something differently.

And you can always go back
and at least repair something

to probably 70, 80%, right?

But if you do it wrong, then
you've ruined it a hundred percent.

So like being a little bit
more thoughtful and mindful

with your actions towards your.

Ex-spouse or whatever it may be.

And then afterwards, just making
sure that you take time for yourself.

As long as like there's a fine line
between what's a selfish amount of

self-work, I think, and then a beneficial
amount as long as you can tread that line

improving yourself, just models better
behavior for them, which is they're gonna

learn from a hell of a lot more than you
telling them what they should be doing.

So true.

So true.

Look at you dropping
truth bombs, my friends.

I know.

Okay.

You're doing a great job.

Here's my last question for you.

If I have a veteran listening
to this episode today.

And they're on the fence about
whether or not they should get help.

They're struggling.

Maybe they're retiring, maybe
they're getting outta the military.

Maybe they did some shit in the military
that they're like working through

whatever, like whatever the reason is,
they're at this crossroads and they're

I should probably talk to somebody.

What kind of help do you recommend
or what would you say to them?

Suffering.

Silence.

Suck it up buttercup.

No, I, those ones always crack me up.

'cause.

I can't remember a single fucking
time in my military career where we

wouldn't bitch while doing something.

So all of a sudden we're supposed
to shut up and suck it up.

We never did.

Nobody ever suffered in silence.

The only time that there was silence was
on night missions when you know, talking

might meant you get your dick blown off.

There was, we would sit around
for hours throwing rocks into

a helmet from very different
angles or have a different order.

We were supposed to do it in.

Bitch the entire time
about how stupid it was.

We were there.

Everyone, bitches, nobody
suffers in silence.

The only time we do it is actively
on mission and then we get out and

we try to act like we're all fucking
bad asses who never complained

and it's absolute bullshit.

I love that.

As far as what, say again.

So

your, so as, as far as like post
service, like what you should be doing.

What really bothers me on the mental
health aspect, especially from veterans,

is that we operated, I was infantry
for, I was active for seven years and

then I did the guard thing for another
six or seven or whatever it was.

And, in two deployments, there was
like never a mission I was on where it

was like me, just me doing some shit.

We always had support.

We always had somebody there.

We always had pieces of the pie
that we were responsible for.

But then you see these guys get out.

And they have families, they have wives
and they have kids, or maybe they're

taking care of a parent or there's always
all kinds of crazy shit that goes on.

'cause let's face it, a lot of the,
especially the infantry, we didn't come

from great homes, so we usually go back
to less than stellar homes anyways.

And then they act like it's all on them.

And they act like they can't accept help.

They can't accept support.

And once you get over.

Thinking that that you have to burden
or just carry the weight of all the

problems then it becomes a little bit more
acceptable to spend time on yourself and

to spend time on on your mental health.

And we spend a lot of time in the
gym and stuff, especially like

infantry guys, like in the gym,
maintaining or growing like muscle.

Ability, right?

But then when it comes to our mental
health, we're like, I got this.

I'm fine.

And it's a it's just as critical
of a component to your daily

life as your physical ability.

None of us wanna end up 80 and unable
to go up a set of stairs or pick

up a grandkid, but so we spend time
and energy and effort facilitating

our bodies to take care of that.

Then we don't think about the TBI
or the CTE or any of the cognitive

defects that come along with a lot
of the shit that we've been through.

And we do nothing for that.

There's supplementation, there's a shit
ton of research out now about creatine

and cock tin and all these bullshit
supplements that we could be taking

just to increase cognitive health.

But then on even further
down the line, then probably.

Not even arguably, but just a hundred
percent more important is like our

behavioral health and our mental
health and how we don't think that

it takes the same effort and time
and maintenance to stay on top of.

Whereas we're in the gym
3, 4, 5, 6 days a week.

But, the thought of doing counseling once
a month is like, Ooh, that's too far.

It's bullshit.

Go spend an hour a month or every
two weeks or one every single week.

It's still not too much time
and it's not too much effort.

You

make a, you make, you bring such a good
point to the table of the military in

and of itself is such a, it's such a
system of humans to accomplish a mission.

And the fact that we would leave
that behind when we get out and

think, I gotta do this all on
my own is just not good stuff.

It's not right.

It's not what you've been taught.

It's not what you've been taught.

Yeah.

It takes a team, it
takes a group of people.

I love that.

Especially if you have a spouse that
has been with you through a deployment

and like especially a spouse with
kids, everybody comes back and thanks

them and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then and then acts like,
okay, I'm the team leader again

and I'm gonna handle everything.

And it's that causes a shit
ton of problems at home.

And it discredits the
effort that they put in.

Back at home, and it just eliminates
the team vibe that they were

thriving off of at the moment.

Because it's like you were out
doing something and they were

holding up their end of the team.

Yeah.

And then to come back and be
like there's no more team.

There's just, I'm gonna handle everything,
or I don't need any help doing anything.

It's, you need it, then you still do.

It's just, that's daily
life, just military life in

a totally different paradigm.

Love that.

I said that was gonna be my
last question, but I lied.

I have one more question.

Me I'm a liar.

I honestly expect a few more.

You, you expect a few.

Okay, good.

I had this question you know that I live
in the educator field and my husband

and I did a podcast about deployment,
military, all that kind of stuff,

which you'll listen to later, I'm sure.

And a teacher emailed me and asked
this question, and you'd be a great

person to answer it, she said.

What do you want educators to
know about kids whose parents

have been in the military or
whose parents have been deployed?

How can educators support military kids?

That's a good one.

That's a good one.

But that's hard 'cause there's,

let me think on that one for a second.

And all kids are different, so not all
kids are gonna need the same thing.

My thinking is we all tend to fall into
three categories when we come back, right?

For me I came back the
Silly Goose version.

I was like I just almost
died so many times.

Life is just a fucking game.

Let's play.

And so you get these guys that it's
everything's just, it's just a joke.

Have you did you ever watch the
Watchmen or read the comic book?

No.

One of my one of my favorite
scenes in that actually.

Hit home way more than I wish it
ever did was there's a superhero

in that one called the Comedian.

And right before very shortly before
he gets murdered he's having a

freak out with one of his biggest
enemies, and he's talking about

how everything's just a joke.

And how once you realize that everything
is just a joke, the only thing that

makes sense is to become the comedian.

And, so that comes with a very
juxtaposing level of just like

rage, which I fight with constantly.

Like I want everything to be silly.

I want everything fun, but when gonna
get serious it's time to get fucking

serious and you don't know what
serious is until I show it to you.

Level rage.

But the opposite of that is is the
guys who are just serious all the time.

All of a sudden they come back and
it's everything is critical and

everything must be done with a keen
eye and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Whereas I'm willing to let all
kinds of shit slide until it's time.

The word shit cannot slide anymore.

Sure.

And it's it's two very d two very
different styles of parent that the

teacher would have to be confronting
the ramifications of in their kid.

The third one is just a wild card.

A lot of times it's, they end up super
liberal and go to freaking protests

and stuff, and it cracks me up.

But yeah the third one, you never know
what you're gonna get, but a lot of combat

veterans come back one of those two ways.

Either the silly goose or
the everything's too serious.

Yeah.

And those are two totally different
things to try to be looking for and

combating in a child, because there's
two very different ways of raising a

kid coming from those two viewpoints.

So it's you just look for signs of is
home life a little bit of like free range,

do whatever, or is home life a little
bit of everything's a little too rigid?

And

then working within those boundaries.

'cause then it just still falls
into typical parenting cues.

Do you think that it's important
for educators to acknowledge

that kids are military kids

in the sense that there's going
to be a lot of absence of parents,

then you're just dealing with,

it's not like a traditional single
parent kid because there's always

like a memory and a longing for the
parent that should be coming back soon.

Yeah.

Because they, how many seven or
eight year olds can tell you what

day of the week it is, let alone
how many months daddy's been gone.

Sure.

Or mom's been gone.

True.

So I don't know, just affirmation I
guess, of yep, he'll be home soon.

And then a lot of them always seem so
proud since we've pushed so hard, this

narrative of American soldiers or heroes.

Does that narrative bother you?

I think it's stupid.

Yeah.

I just like the thank
you for your service.

It's didn't join for you.

But I was living in Sacramento
paying rent to my dealer to

live in his house when I joined.

It's not like I fucking had a
fucking yellow brick road to

walk down the rest of my life.

I made a choice to get the
fuck outta where I was.

I always say there's three reasons
people enter the military when they're,

especially on the enlisted side.

I think the officer side's a little
different, but they either enter

because they need a family, they've,
it's part of the family business.

They have multiple people in their family
who've served or they need an education.

I think the people who need a family
usually have got themselves in some

sort of situation where this is
like the option, this is what I need

to do to get out of a situation.

What do you think about that?

I was always good at carving
out my own niche of friends

that ended up being family.

I think for me it was just I saw
the direction I was headed in

and I was like I don't wanna do
that the rest of my fucking life.

Whew.

And it led us together.

It led us here.

I have to tell you one of
my favorite ESCO stories.

You're me.

I was doing a training in our
unit and I was like, we need

to do some team building.

I don't know if you remember this,
and like you were like, lemme

tell you how you build teamwork.

That's not how that happened.

You g Okay.

Okay.

You said give us something
terribly shitty to do.

We'll complain and bitch and moan
him about it the entire time.

And on the other side of it, we will
have completed what you needed us

to do and we'll be a stronger team.

A hundred percent, yes.

Okay.

How do you remember it happening?

All I said was, let's do something shitty.

Yes, I always do something that sucks.

Let's go out into the field for two weeks
during the winter, or, whatever it is.

I think about that a lot because I think
about on my side of the house, right?

I'm a therapist by trade.

Not a warrior, so to speak.

And so I'm, I, and I'm not, I don't
have the soldiering embedded in me.

I have the social working embedded in me.

And I always think
connection, relationship.

And you're like, listen sister, if
we want connection and relationship,

we gotta embrace the suck together.

Yeah.

It's just, it's the, so we all
spend a lot of time in happy, fun

times, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And the MWR side of things, they're
always like let's go play golf.

Let's let tube down the currency
river, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But at no point in time did you ever
have some sort of sun ssu Art of war

meeting of a, of another individual where,
like in the darkest of times and in the

worst of times, who the, who stepped
forward, who took care of everybody, who

made sure that things were happening.

And I think what one of the cool
things about that is while everybody

looks at it as, I don't know
how I'm gonna get through that.

More often than not, the one who
is the most apprehensive to begin

with ends up just stepping up.

And can see a lot of things in
people when things are going horribly

more than when they're going well.

I

love

that.

If everything sucks and nobody's got any
food, then all of a sudden somebody taps

you on the leg and hands you a fucking
jalapeno cheese from the MRE that they've

been saving while you're starving.

It's like that.

That's the dude that you're gonna
remember that moment for decades.

Yeah.

A shitty jalapeno cheese with 360
calories and fucking 26 grams of sugar.

Whatever the hell it
been, it absolute garbage.

But in that moment it was gold.

I love that.

I love that.

Do you think there's any advice
that you have for people who are

getting out of the military and just
transitioning to normal civilian life?

Yeah.

Hon honestly, right away, whether you
believe that you need it or you don't.

Two things need to happen.

Sign up with a counselor and
start shopping counselors.

I was very lucky that I found your
sister with a similar background, and

and she can she'll just laugh at me
and tell me I'm being a fucking idiot.

And that's exactly what I need
sometimes because I don't wanna talk

about, God, traditional counseling
things as far as like we all.

Tend to see it.

I want someone to tell me I'm
being an idiot, so I can be like,

okay, where do I go from here?

Yeah.

And then you need someone to
call you out on your bullshit.

Yeah.

And then find a physical hobby.

Whether it is the gym or hiking or
riding a bike or something, because you

are going to a hundred percent lack the
familial aspect of it in the sense that

you've done stuff with dudes where.

You've done stuff in a team.

Sorry, I keep saying, I keep making
this male, 'cause I came from the

infantry and we didn't see women ever.

That's

okay.

That's your experience.

But we had such a connection with the
people around us that you could tell them

shit that you wouldn't tell your mother.

Of course.

And then all of a sudden that's all gone.

All the phone calls in the world are never
gonna be the same thing as being up at

2:00 AM with somebody you know, drunk off
your ass on a Saturday, excited as hell

because you don't have work on Monday.

'cause Martin Luther King had
a dream or whatever it may be.

That, you don't have
that connection anymore.

Yeah.

So getting a counselor, getting
a good counselor and shopping

around and finding one that you
have a real good rapport with.

And it's worth the effort.

It's worth the time, and it's
worth the $35 copays, no matter

how many times you gotta pay it.

And and yeah, physical hobby,

love

that you don't, but you
don't need other people.

Like you're going to find other people.

There's too many veterans out in
the world right now where you're

not all of it a sudden gonna be
like you were in the army too.

But

you all tend to find each other.

Huh?

You do tend to find each other.

We can smell the TBI, but but yeah,
like those two things I would say is

like number one acap or whatever the
hell they call it now, your little two,

three week course when you get off of
active duty is some of the dumbest shit.

And then sign up with your
local va. 'cause paying for

medical bills sucks nowadays.

So yeah, as soon as you can get
service disconnect or sorry, service

connected and sign up with the
VA and then at least your medical

stuff is pretty much taken care of.

Like when I broke my toe,
I didn't pay anything.

I had the toenail ripped off.

I was in a cast for a while.

Yeah,

Yeah.

And for anybody who's listening
to this that thinks they shouldn't

get service connected, what I tell
people all the time is that is a.

Privilege that you earn, that
is something you've earned.

That is, you've sacrificed, I don't
know, a veteran who, a combat veteran

who has not sacrificed something,
whether that's their health,

whether it's finances, whether it's
relationships you've sacrificed.

Do not be like me and wait six, six
years, and then talk to the 30th Air

Force guy who dropped a 15 pound box on
his foot and ended up a hundred percent

disconnected, or sorry, service connected
before you're finally like, you know what?

Fuck it.

I deserve it too.

Yeah, you do deserve it.

Whether you deserve it or not.

Who the fuck cares?

It's free money and they're a
bunch of assholes who are better

at playing the system than you are
that are a hundred percent, and

they have no deficits whatsoever.

And you're gonna go through multiple
exams to determine that anyway.

So I know given any day one exam might
lead to another, something to a different

result, but there's supposed to be a
built-in system that people are not

supposed to be able to work the system.

But you and I both know, every
combat veteran that I know has

sacrificed something and there's a
reason we have service connection,

there's a reason we have healthcare.

Yeah.

It's huge.

Okay.

Any great, any other great advice
you have from our conversation today?

You use one of the free services unless
you know somebody who knows the in and

outs of the VA system because if you have
back pain but you pick the wrong pieces of

your spine to make a claim on, then you're
gonna start right back at square one.

Either that or shotgun blast
the whole fucking thing

fair,

and be like, you proof every single
one of my bones isn't hurting.

Fair.

Yeah.

Love that.

Bryce, I always appreciate
our conversations together.

Thank you for taking the
time to chat with me.

I know you had no idea
what you're signing up for,

what you're just

willing to help a gal out and
that's what I love about you.

Appreciate you, friend.

Thank you for being my guest.

You no, I'd do anything for you.

The feelings are mutual.

All right.

Take care.

Bye bye.