Chitty Chats with Stacy

Josh Varner
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[00:00:00]

Hey friends, welcome back to another episode with Chitty Chats with Stacey. So I am excited to have our guest on today, Mr. Josh Varner. And in full disclosure, Josh and I have never met. And so I have been stalking you online a little bit, Josh. And that's why I reached out to you because I think we have some, some parallel lives happening around here.

And anybody who's in the trauma informed space and helping educators in schools. Uh, settles deep in my soul. So I wanted to have a conversation with you and find out who you are, what you do, and how in the world you got in this business. So let's start

there. Yeah. I have a little bit of a unique, uh, path to get here.

And I, you know, I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come on your podcast. I, I'm a big fan of [00:01:00] your work and been following you too. So when you reached out, it was, uh, That's an exciting opportunity for me, but I, uh, I got my master's in school counseling way back in 2003 from a school called Wisconsin Platteville, and I was the GA on the football team.

And so I got to break down film to about three in the morning every night while I was getting my master's. Uh, but I fell in love with college football. I love the recruiting, the grind, the competition, and, uh, I kind of put the master, I finished my master's, but I became a college football coach and I did that for about 10 years.

I really thought that was going to be my life's work, but, uh, I had, uh, got married and started having babies and it was hard to juggle that lifestyle, uh, and, and, and being the kind of dad I wanted to be. And so I got out and I had the master's, so I started working in community based mental health. And I found pretty quickly that, you know, even though I had that education, I really didn't, uh, know how to help these kids.

You know, they were struggling with a lot of tough life situations and we were pretty good at giving them labels, you know, a lot of things, disorder, disorder, disorder, and then we send the [00:02:00] psychiatrist and give them some meds. And not that all that stuff is bad, but I really wasn't getting the outcomes, uh, that I wanted.

Uh, and then I really thought about switching careers again, to be honest with you, I was struggling with it. But then I saw my first trauma informed speaker about 10 years ago, and it was very transformational for me, you know, shifting that paradigm away from what's wrong with that kid to what does that kid experience.

And I really just tried to learn everything I could about the topic, uh, books, podcasts, you know, there's so many ways to learn today. And the more I learned, the more I understood, uh, I started getting the outcomes I wanted. And then, uh, about three years ago, I was approached on talking about this, just in my community, and I, I didn't know, you know, Never dreamed of being a professional speaker or anything like that.

I just want to share the stuff that I knew worked, especially in the school setting. As I changed this in the schools, I found that's kind of the last environment a lot of people are successful. And so I just started sharing it locally and fast forward to today, I get to, you know, travel over the country and share this message and, um, you know, hopefully give people that same aha moment that I got.

Love that.

[00:03:00] So where are you located physically? Where do you raise these babies?

Yeah, we're in Jefferson City, Missouri, right there in the middle of the state in the capital.

Yeah, so what I've found, and I'm curious about this for you, so I live in Colorado and Wyoming part time, and I think there's a small group of us that are, that are seeking trauma informed practices and care and helping all these western states kind of transition, and there's a pretty big difference between western states and some of our urban areas.

Are you seeing some of that as well?

Yeah. Yeah. So it, uh, I grew up in rural Iowa and so I'm doing a ton of work in Wyoming and I find that Wyoming is really similar to Iowa actually. And so I feel like, uh, I can speak Wyoming even though I'm not from there. It's really just Iowa with mountains instead of corn, really, uh, community centric people, um, you know, warm people.

And it's not that they don't want to help. They just don't know how to help. And you start providing them with solutions and, uh, they, they're eager to adopt them, I find.

Yeah, I [00:04:00] love that. Uh, you're similar to me in that I spent a lot of time in Montana and don't live in Montana right now. And you spent a lot of time in Wyoming and don't live in Wyoming.

And what I'm curious about is, I mean, you do a lot of keynotes, you do a lot of all day training for staff. What are some of the things that you see that teachers are struggling with the most, and what are a couple, one or two solutions that you offer that you know are life changing for them?

Yeah, so I think the big thing I'm seeing is, you know, we have more dysregulated students post COVID than really ever before in our schools, and, and we're not throwing the kids away like we used to.

You know, a lot of, a lot of educators say to me, Well, it used to be a lot easier, and I, I, I agree with them 100%, the job is harder today than it used to be, but I think it's important to understand the why, you know, we used to, graduation rates in 1980 were like 60 some percent in the United States, and so, there used to be large swaths of these kids that were expendable, and more schools are saying all kids today, and part of all kids is some, some, uh, some [00:05:00] challenging generational trauma that we're dealing with now, and so, uh, but the big thing I'm finding is that the kids are dysregulating the adults in our building, and, And, uh, you know, bringing some awareness to that, like, hey, this behavior is not choice, this is by flight freeze, and now we're dysregulating adults, and that kid can't get regulated if that adult doesn't feel safe in their own bodies, right?

And that's no judgment on teachers, I tell them all the time, you work in a school, you're gonna get dysregulated. But we can't have you interacting with kids when you are, and so how do we build those systems of support to A, regulate kids, but also regulate the adults, because that's what I'm finding, and, you know, I'm working with some schools pretty extensively, and, uh, that's an emerging skill anywhere.

I've never met a school that's had an awesome job, uh, regulating the adults, and so that's something we're, we're working on.

Yeah. I love that. Um, one of my guests prior is Jen Stein and she's a principal and she's been doing a lot of regulating adults and, but it's been years, she's been doing this for six and seven years.

And so what I say is this is not a one and done [00:06:00] training, right? This is like a lifetime. And I'm curious for you, once you learned this information yourself, are you implementing it in your own

life? Yeah, yeah, no, and I tell him I you'll get so many opportunities to practice this stuff in a school setting that you naturally use it everywhere.

Use it as a parent with your own kids. Use it out in the community. I like to tell a little story. I was working with some doctors at the University of Missouri a couple months ago, and I'm in the parking garage. It's a major medical center. This guy almost hits me with this truck. And, uh, he said a bunch of four letter words to me, and my initial impulse was to say those words back, but I worked in a school so long, where I just get used to asking the question, are they in the front, or are they in the back of their brain?

Alright, they're in the back of their brain. Is fight, flight, or freeze? Oh, that's a fight response. I don't need to take it personal. And, and it's amazing that I, you know, you just get used to that, and, uh, and really I was in a major hospital, so what happened to that guy? Probably the worst day of his life, right?

So I don't need to, like, Uh, respond with my own, uh, you know, emotions there. [00:07:00] And so that's the beauty of getting it. The more we can train our educators, you know, this is what's going on with this kid. This is why they're responding that way. How do we meet them with that love and safety and connections they need to learn and grow?

That's the stuff that I'm excited about teaching.

I love that. And I, I tell people this ends up being my religion, where I'm like preaching it or I'm out in the world. You fly a lot in airports. I fly a lot in airports. Airports are super dysregulating, right? I always say that the biggest lessons of like, how, if you want to practice, go to an airport.

Amen. I just had back to back delayed flights. So I am, I'm feeling what you're I'm trying to avoid rental cars too. That's another thing that's a little challenging right now, but Uh, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it makes you practice it and we're all got our own journey. I'm still doing my work. I'm trying to grow as a person still.

And that's why I tell people all the time, this isn't a, the next fad in education. A lot of people think it's the next fad. I tell them this is a better understanding of the human condition. You know, this is going to help you understand yourself better, your [00:08:00] family, better everyone you interact with better.

So it's not the, you know, I work with schools cause I feel like they make the biggest impact. on young people's trauma healing journey, like if we can get them the love they need in school, they're gonna be successful in life a lot of times, but I work with hospitals, um, you know, police officers, heck, I got banking clients now, I think there's a lot of people saying, you know, if we're gonna, whatever organization, if we're gonna be successful, we need to embrace this information.

Love that. So when you say I work with them, what does that mean? What does, yeah. So I, what do you do?

I try to be as flexible as I can. 'cause a lot of people, they don't know what they don't know, you know? And so I do a lot of like a school say, Hey, bring me into an opening keynote. They like that, uh, inspiration and so awesome.

I'll come and do one. You know, and I agree with you, this has gotta be an ongoing thing. But if, to me it's like, let me get my foot in the door, they're gonna. Uh, hopefully have a paradigm shift, you know, and then do more work with me or do more work with somebody else. I'm cool with it. I feel like this is just ongoing.

Like, the [00:09:00] kids are always going to tell you what you don't know. Who are you struggling with? What, what do they need? Let's figure that out. And that's going to be that ongoing journey. So that's why I know that all those fancy words, I'm trauma informed, I'm trauma aware, I'm trauma responsive. That stuff's great.

But to me, it's like, Hey, I'm going to keep learning the rest of my life. I think every, uh, organization I partner with, that's what I encourage them to do. And in a dream scenario, you know, somebody within the organization can kind of pick up the flag and move forward. But I'm, uh, I try to be really flexible because they're all going to come to us in a different

place.

100%. So some people are going to want a keynote. Some people are going to want professional development, all day sort of stuff, workshops. And then are you doing some ongoing, like through the school year, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, they can get your support?

Yeah, so my favorite one I got to do this year is work with Sedalia Public Schools with their elementaries.

They have several buildings and we've done a ton of work together. So we did the keynotes then we do the staff training. But probably one of my favorite parts is we get to, uh, ever so [00:10:00] often I get to actually meet with all the teachers in little blocks. And we just problem solve tough kids or what they're struggling with.

And so to me, that's really fun. And what I get to see is the fruits of the labor. So I had a teacher tell me the other day, she's like, this stuff really works. You know, we had success with these kids before, but we're having it so much quicker now. Or like, we'll make a plan on a kid. And they'd be like, that kid went from 60 percent attendance and they haven't even missed their day in the last month, you know, and, uh, So that's the exciting part for me.

And that's why, you know, it was hard for me to leave the school setting because I love seeing those positive outcomes with the kids I work with. But I'm hoping that, you know, in the work I'm doing now that that, you know, we're magnifying that impact by getting more people on board with this movement.

100%. And one of the things that I really appreciate, this is where we're unique in that we're not educators, and we've worked in the education system, we've done school based mental health, we've supported educators, and that component around mental health and understanding that whole Somewhat terrible cycle that we're in for treating mental [00:11:00] health, therapy and meds.

We know that doesn't work as effectively as a total shift of dosing regulation and positive relationships and creating safety. And are you finding that shift is, you know, these, these kids aren't all mental health cases per se. They're dysregulated humans who just don't understand them. What do you, what do you think about

that?

Yeah, I liked, uh, Bruce Perry, Dr. Bruce Perry. I thought when he said this, it just really resonated with me. He said, uh, all labels are inaccurate, some are helpful. And that's the way I view it. You know, I've worked with groups of foster kids before, and they'll say, you're telling me I'm not broken. You're telling me there's nothing wrong with me.

And I say, no, there's nothing wrong with you. You're the way you're responding is a hundred percent predictable based on your life experiences. Now you have to do healing. There's work you have to do around that to be the best version of yourself, but. You're not broken. And a lot of times when you give somebody disorder, disorder, disorder, they start internalizing all that and they say, what's wrong with me?

When there's nothing wrong with you, you've had some tough life experiences. How do we [00:12:00] help you heal? And I think that's why, you know, whoever has time with these children make the biggest impact. So I'm not saying therapists aren't really important because they are, but if they're seeing that kid four hours a month, but that bus driver is seeing them for 30 minutes.

Picking them up in 30, you know, an hour a day, you can make an argument that bus driver makes a bigger impact. Are we going to train that bus driver in how to smile, how to connect, how to make that kid feel loved and safe every day? Because ultimately that's what works. Every moment is a therapeutic moment.

And that's why, you know, I'm passionate. Let's train the bus drivers, the custodians, food service personnel, teachers, paras, everybody to love and connect with that kid. That's going to have a way bigger impact than a social worker spending an hour a week

with them. Love that, love that, love that. And you mentioned one of my favorites, Bruce Perry came into my life in 2006.

Uh, I was pregnant while I was listening to him and I've been a fan since then. Who are some other people who've influenced your journey in a big way?

Yeah, so I, you know, he was probably my first favorite. I love Peter Levine's [00:13:00] work, uh, Dr. Gabbermonte's work, you know, there's what I've really tried to do with my work is how do we take all that awesome complex neuroscience and boil it down and make it simple and easy and engaging to digest because that's, we got to take it to the masses.

And like I said, the bus driver is really important. Well, I have to be able to bring a message. It's engaging and easy for them to digest or we do a parent night and we got some lower functioning parents. They're doing the best they can. How do we make this stuff simple and easy enough? And I think that's where my coaching background actually helps me out a bunch.

Because that's something we always focused on in coaching is we have very little time. How do we engage them? How do we make it simple? It's not what I know. It's what they know. And so that's really what I've tried to do with my work is take it, make it really simple. Those teachers don't need to know all the brain parts, all the neuroscience.

They just need to recognize when they're dysregulated, when that student's dysregulated and have simple, easy tools. To get 'em regulated so they can learn.

Yeah. This is why I was so excited to talk to you, Josh, because the feedback that you [00:14:00] get is amazing. People are leaving your seminars, your workshops, your speeches with actual tangible tools, and I think you and I are similar in that way.

You don't wanna waste people's time. We teachers don't have a lot of time and you wanna give them tangible things. Here's my question for you as a dad. Yeah. Have you, have you had your own kiddos say, Hey dad. You look a little dysregulated.

You know, one of my favorite, uh, dad moments, uh, was, it's not, anyway, so I travel a lot.

You understand what that's like. And so my wife was getting a little teary eyed because I was leaving and my son is in first grade. And he said, Hey mom, you got to name it, tame it, reframe it. I did not teach him that. And what I had to do some certain guys at school was like, did you learn that and he ended up learning that in preschool as a four year old and here now he's seven, he sees another person struggling and he has the tools in his toolbox to do, you know, and it was just one of these great moments of like, That's why I'm so optimistic about the future.

You know, I was an 18 year old. I had no idea what my [00:15:00] emotions were, how to deal with them, none of that stuff. And now I have a son who's in first grade and he has a, he has the tools and he knows how to use them. And so I just think, man, think about what our communities could look like a generation from now when there's awesome things like this going on in our schools.

Yeah. And

when your kids and my kids become the leaders and the teachers and the decision makers, it makes a big difference when it's rooted in brain science. Um, I have a, I have a 16 year old daughter and she came home and said, I was super dysregulated today and my best friend showed up for me and that was really helpful and I needed that co regulation.

And I was like, that's beautiful because that's, that's, that's what it is, right? We all need that. So one of the questions I ask. All of my helping people is what are you, what are you doing to take care of yourself and regulate yourself, Josh?

Oh, well, I tell you what, I travel, right? Yeah, that's the whole I, to be honest with you, I think I've overbooked myself a little bit, you know, kind of one of my goals, you know, you have to work so hard, you [00:16:00] understand this is a momentum business.

And so you show up and And deliver somebody they tell their friends and that's, you know, it was really hard to get this thing off the ground for me. It was actually, uh, started becoming a viable career option and then Covid happened and then it went to zero and then I had to work really hard to build it again and but now I'm kind of like, okay, I gotta, I gotta find better balance.

And so that's one of my personal goals. I haven't exactly figured that out. But the things I like to do to regulate, I like to get outside and move. And so actually, when I get done talking to you, it's about 60 degrees out here in Missouri. I'm gonna get outside, go for a hike. Uh, when I do visit beautiful Wyoming, I like to, you know, try to go to the Grand Tetons, Yellowstone, build in days where I can, uh, uh, be out in nature, I feel closest to, you know, God, Source, whatever you want to say there.

And so, those things, uh, really help me, movement. Yeah, I

remember those days of always in the hustle. I was gone for three weeks at one point and then I was like, I only speak so many days a year now. You got to book ahead of time if you need me. It's important for me to show [00:17:00] up for my family. I'm happy to, and I love that you're in that space of like, how do I add value?

What does that look like? How do I regulate my business? So that I can see regulated. It's huge. It's huge. Um, I, I appreciate that our people have a story behind that professional component and that's what's been really important for me is that you're human. You're a human who's doing this. Uh, as you think about working in education and teachers and which, what's your hope for the next.

The next year, two years, five years that you hope to see as, as the education moves forward in all of these terms, Trump Influenced, Trump Restored. Yeah,

so there's some schools I work really extensively with and I, I tell them, guys, you're the tip of the spear. Like, you're showing everybody else that this stuff works.

Now, my dream was to be that this is instead of, uh, you know, those schools being the tip of the spear, that's the kind of normal, and then we just continually move [00:18:00] forward, uh, with better tools, better interventions, better strategies, and so one of the things I love about visiting all these schools, I get to learn from them, like I, I get, I steal an idea here, steal an idea there, but.

Uh, and it's exciting that more and more places are doing this, but it, I would love to see it be more universal. And I would love an opportunity to work with more coaches. As a former coach myself, uh, you know, another Bruce Perry quote, you know, he said, if we could get 5 percent of our coaches trauma informed, it'd make a bigger impact and double the number of therapists.

And so, I used to speak to coaches quite a bit about football technique. You know, I would love to speak to more coaches about this stuff because they can make, I know my football coach, a guy named Ron Weimer, had a huge impact on my life. Uh, growing up and, and I just feel like if we could get, uh, you know, these tools in more coaches hands, uh, the impact they could have would be, would be really big.

Love

that. I love that. So if you're a coach and you're listening to this, Josh Varner needs you and you need Josh Varner. So how do people get a hold of you,

Josh? Yeah, so, uh, you can call me on my cell. I'm, I'm 319 899 9843. They [00:19:00] can email me, uh, joshvarnerconsulting at gmail. com. Uh, go to my website, joshvarnerconsulting.

com. Uh, those are all great ways to touch base with me, but, I'm, uh, always excited to work with different groups on moving forward with this information, and anything I can do to help, I'm, I'm there for it. You

are a lot like me. I'm like, Hey, this is my cell phone. Feel free to call it. I know people are like, you're giving your cell phone out.

I'm like thousands of people have it at this point. It's fun, right? Like this is a human experience and we've got to be available to support humans. I love that.

I love getting a random call from a parent, you know, that apparent night, Hey, I'm struggling with this. You know, I want to help. Like that's ultimately like the driver behind this.

You know, I, I got a business mentor and he tells me all the time, you can't give away your slides. You know, people sharing with other people. And I was like, that's the idea. You know, like, I feel like if you chase purpose, and I, I feel like I've done that my whole career is, Hey, I want to support people, help people.

And this is, uh, my latest version of that. Um, but I, I'm, I'm all [00:20:00] for it. Anything I can do to support people, reach out. And if I don't have the answer, I'll try to point you towards somebody else that does. I love that.

It's a pretty small network of us. And so I feel like there's a lot that we can reach out and we can do that.

So I really appreciate your time, Josh. Thank you for being here with

me today. Yeah. Thank you for, for everything. And, uh, like I said, I love your podcast. All the people that you talk to, I know some of those folks have learned for a lot of those folks. And so you're doing great, great work. And I appreciate the opportunity to collaborate too, because these are all people that I've learned and grown from.

I think that's what it's all about,

you know, agreed. Thanks for being open to being on it. I hope you have a lovely hike in that beautiful 60 degree weather.

Yeah, I can't wait. Can't wait. Thanks. Talk to you soon. Bye.